DUAL LENS CAMERA - BOKEH EFFECT, FAKE SOFTWARE EFFECT

StefanTh

Every comment which explains that the bokeh effect is fake will be deleted

tallnutt

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MarcinP replied at 2017-11-13 15:04
Hi
Yes I can fully confirm that camera app is exactly the same with same options and same bokeh ef ...

oops I said it was fake but its not - its does alter bokeh effect.

maravilha00

tallnutt replied at 2018-1-18 11:27
Edited by tallnutt at 2018-1-18 11:44 \n\n
oops I said it was fake but its not - its does alter bok ...

actually it turns out that the bokeh effect on s2 pro as well as on s2 is FAKE, just a round area neat and in focus and all around that area blurred.... this effect can be done on any simple photo editor within seconds on any picture.
real bokeh / portrait mode would use the second camera lens to create a "depht of field" diagram based on 2 stereoscopic images, allowing to know exactly where the main suject has to be in focus and also what is foreground (in front of
the main subject) and background (behind the subject). this diagram allows then a correct stock camera app to introduce blurred areas BEHIND and IN FRONT of the main subject.... NO ROUND FIELD I FOCUS but pretty much same
effect which can be obtained easily an any SLR photo camera!!

UMIDIGI DEVELOPERS: if the second lens is really an operational lens why don't you simply update your stock camera app and include the necessary software instructions which at least on the S2Pro would take advantage of the hardware.
as per info from the processor manufacturer the hardware allows use of dual lenses up to 16+16 Mp ....

i am very curious to hear from the development team what they have to say about this.
thanks.

maravilha00

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Bug69 replied at 2017-12-31 14:08
Non c'est une délimitation a faire manuellement du sujet que l'on souhaite voir nette pas automatiq ...

voyez dans cette vídeo de quoi des vrais fotos en mode bokeh ou portrait ont l'air: pas de surface circulaire nette, mais des fleurs, une personne, et puis le fond en flou ...
c'est quand-même autre chose!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeZ5yTjrqAk

ci-après voyez encore une autre foto faite avec le XIAOMI MI A1 avec effet bokeh qui est clairement du vrai effet bokeh:

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-EEqZx ... 20170915_113310.jpg

c'est pourquoi je dois conclure que, pour le moment, l'application stock de caméra du S2Pro n'est pas en mesure de faire des vrais photos "bokeh" ou "portrait".
et pourtant, selon le fabricant du processeur Mediatek, ce dernier serait à même de supporter 2 "lenses" de 16Mp chacune, donc 16+16.
si la deuxième caméra des deux est vraiment opérationnelle, alors UMIDIGI devrait urgemment refaire son application de caméra et remédier a ce défaut.

in the end, as it is actually only a FAKE BOKEH EFFECT clients are abused paying about US$300 when the XIAOMI MI A1 costs about US$200 ...

tallnutt

I'm sure you are right about the effect. But the second camera is 'active' because the blurred background disappears when you put your finger over the lower lens.

Bug69

maravilha00 replied at 2018-1-19 06:50
Edited by maravilha00 at 2018-1-19 06:59 \n\n
voyez dans cette vídeo de quoi des vrais fotos en mo ...

Tu as raisons la qualité photo disons le traitement applicatif n'est pas du tout présent car c'est bien de cela que l'on parle, en vue des specs techniques il peut nous donner bien mieux mais hélas ce n'est pas le cas le MI5S faisait bien mieux niveau traitement de l'image ...et la maj OTA datant de fin décembre qui est dispo en téléchargement  ne change pas celà ; sinon c'est un très bon téléphone ; il serait parfait avec cette évolution du traitement de l'image !

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You have reasons photo quality say the application processing is not at all present because that's what we're talking about, in view of technical specs it can give us much better but alas it is not the case my ex MI5S was doing a much better level of image processing ... and the maj OTA dating from the end of december which is available for download does not change that; otherwise it's a very good phone; it would be perfect with this evolution of image processing!

maravilha00

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kajsa_katt replied at 2018-1-20 08:13
Edited by kajsa_katt at 2018-1-20 08:31 \n\n

well, thisone goes to the administrators (e.g. http://community.umidigi.com/space-uid-242063.html) of the forum, hopefully they will pay attention and transmit to the UMIDIGI developers.
there are at least 2 major companies which supply the necessary knowhow and corresponding applications for dual lens camera cellphones:
- corephotonics
- arcsoft

coresoftonic on its website has an excellent demonstration how a real bokeh/portrait picture looks like, here it is:
http://corephotonics.com/products/digital-bokeh/
specially when you click on "far focus" it shows clearly the girl's face and body neat, but the foreground (her hand) and the background get gradually blurred,
exactly like on a portrait picture taken with a telelens on a SLR-camera!

arcsoft has also the necessary knowhow but they do not show samples on their website, only general information and for more details you can contact them:
http://www.arcsoft.com/product/d ... on-smart-phone.html

so, as UMIDIGI says they use one lens 13MP and the secondary lens 5MP both together would clearly allow to take real portrait/bokeh pictures, the 13MP camera
takes the main shot and in focus, while the 5MP takes a slightly different angle view based on which a "depht of field" calculation can be made by the software
and then produce the portrait/bokeh picture with less or more blurring of fore- and background.
that's the way how it should be done.

so please ADMINISTRATORS: CONTACT THE PHONE'S DEVELOPERS AND TELL THEM THAT THE STOCK CAMERA APP SHOULD BE IMPROVED WITH A CORRECT
BOKEH TECHNOLOGY.

if that will not happen it would mean that the 5MP lens is fake and has absolutely no function. so IF IT IS FUNCTIONAL, there is absolutely no reason not to include
a corresponding software update!

thanks for your attention administrators. i look very much forward to your feedback and hopefully a quick update in this sense of the camera software.

tallnutt

maravilha00 replied at 2018-1-19 06:44
actually it turns out that the bokeh effect on s2 pro as well as on s2 is FAKE, just a round area  ...

Yes it is fake - the second camera does something, but it does not take a lower F stop photo to make the bokeh like you might expect - it cannot combine with the main camera optically, that is not possible with a phone's camera (even the VLT in Chile has trouble optically combining images).  The bokeh effect is software generated, slightly bettter than you get from a sinlge lens camera, but still not a proper bokeh. The simple give-away evidence for this is that if you make the "in focus" centre subject something you can see through parts of, e.g. some flowers, and put on the maximum bokeh effect, you will see that between the banches, the background is still in focus - in a  real low f-stop camera lens , the background will be out of focus between the branches, regardless of where its is (centre, edges, etc.)

I think the second camera just takes a blurred picture and then it is software combined with the main camera focussed image, so that the centre is only from the focussed camera and the edges fade into the background, unfocussed, camera -  but this will never be as good as a real bokeh DSLR type picture - you cannot easily do that by combining two pictures, not without masking all the foreground subject before combining, which is hard to do with e.g. a flower. So the compromise is that the forground sharp area is simple defined by a circle of variable size, defined by the slider.

Hope that clears things up.. although I don't know why Umidigi couldn't explain it before.

tallnutt

P.S> so, therefore, ALL dual camera bokeh effects are actually 'fake' compared to a real narrow depth of focus lens. I've learned my lesson that dual cameras are really just a gimmick, better to have one good lens.

maravilha00

tallnutt replied at 2018-3-27 11:18
P.S> so, therefore, ALL dual camera bokeh effects are actually 'fake' compared to a real narrow dept ...

you are right and not right stating all dual lens cameras have fake bokeh effect...
let's again explain what a dual lens camera does, or at least should do:
the main lens takes a mostly sharp picture (main focus on main object within the shot), while the second lens does a second shot form the slightly different viewing angle. this allows a corresponding software to calculate a so called "depth of field" map. based on this map and the main picture, an appropriate software can calculate where the neat main object shall appear and from which point on into background the blurring has to be produced. by the way, a performant software will increase the amount of blur the further into background it goes.

that's the reason why i stated in several posts, that the S2PRO could include a better software allowing to produce good portrait / bokeh shots, as you showed in another post, the 2 rear cameras are recognized which definitely means they COULD be operational, if an appropriate software was included. that's actually definitely NOT the case.

where you are right about "fake" effect is the fact that ALL phones must produce this effect with software to obtain a result as close to a real DLSR camera as possible. Some are better than others, obviously. even on Iphone X these bokeh pics show mistakes, i.e. areas which should be blurred are neat ...